Comments on: Eight Stages (Waves) of Human Development: Part Two http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/ Go Creative! It's Your Native State. Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:45:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Candace http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-754 Candace Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:21:16 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-754 I would say that I am turquoise and have been for a few years, but I don't think that one "level" is better than any other and there is some benefit to each "level" depending upon the situation. I by no means feel that these so-called levels are developmental to the point that a person transitions through each one sequentially as a measurement of development and I think it is possible for people to start at any one of these different levels and move up or down the color "scale." It helps my understanding of your categories that I have personally explored human development as means to self understanding, though I was unfamiliar with these color coded classifications. I would say that I am turquoise and have been for a few years, but I don’t think that one “level” is better than any other and there is some benefit to each “level” depending upon the situation. I by no means feel that these so-called levels are developmental to the point that a person transitions through each one sequentially as a measurement of development and I think it is possible for people to start at any one of these different levels and move up or down the color “scale.”

It helps my understanding of your categories that I have personally explored human development as means to self understanding, though I was unfamiliar with these color coded classifications.

]]> By: Orna Ross http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-353 Orna Ross Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:17:53 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-353 @ Steve: Here in Ireland, (contrary to what you romantic Americans might think), the stickers would probably read, "Eat, sleep and go spendin'" Oh yes, a thousand thanks that I was born in the era of the Internet. Not ready to put much "out there" yet about the novel, which is a very big project -- but going well so far -- and thanks for your interest. I am also at work on a book about freethinking, so am juggling the two. Do let me know if you change your mind about transatlantic flying! @ Karoly: Welcome to the site and thanks for the feedback. @ Steve: Here in Ireland, (contrary to what you romantic Americans might think), the stickers would probably read, “Eat, sleep and go spendin’” Oh yes, a thousand thanks that I was born in the era of the Internet. Not ready to put much “out there” yet about the novel, which is a very big project — but going well so far — and thanks for your interest. I am also at work on a book about freethinking, so am juggling the two. Do let me know if you change your mind about transatlantic flying!

@ Karoly: Welcome to the site and thanks for the feedback.

]]> By: Karoly Domonyi http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-352 Karoly Domonyi Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:56:55 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-352 Hi, Your site is one of my favorites seen around blog explosion. Keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your blog. It is great to find someone who can find the fun things in life! I wish you all the best in all years. I look forward to developing a friendship and networking with you. Let me know if there is something I can do to assist you with your business free. With Regards, Karoly Domonyi http://www.ariestrade.com Hi,

Your site is one of my favorites seen around blog explosion. Keep up the good work.
I enjoy reading your blog. It is great to find someone who can find the fun things in life!
I wish you all the best in all years. I look forward to developing a friendship and networking with you. Let me know if there is something I can do to assist you with your business free.

With Regards,
Karoly Domonyi
http://www.ariestrade.com

]]> By: Steve (Honest Abe) Manning http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-349 Steve (Honest Abe) Manning Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:30:04 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-349 Orna, I would renege on a promise to never again take a trans-atlantic flight if I could share a bottle or two of a good wine at some sidewalk cafe on a sunny afternoon with you discussing this and other weighty issues of the day. Perhaps Prague beneath the clock. My wife would immediately adopt your childeen (?) and become their American gran, your hubby and I could discuss what fly to catch the monarch of the glen or he could teach me about hurling while our brains flew sparks. I have not read Wilber, it has been some time since I dealt with these questions academically, but oh the excitement rises still. I live in Arkansas, where my wife recently saw a bumper sticker saying "Eat, Sleep, and Go Fishin"" Thankfully, we have the Internet so that I can get my roof fixed by first-tier thinkers and ignore for the most part the rest. They are good people here, but we do think differently, is it not so? And in the meantime I can find mental stimulation a world away in the land of my fathers and theirs.. My glass is empty, I will go and fill it and remember the pub at the foot of the bridge in Dublin. I have been reading Greeley's book "Irish Stew" about the Chicago Haymarket riots, not unlike your own new book on the New York riots??? I'm anxious to hear more... Steve(Honest Abe) Orna,

I would renege on a promise to never again take a trans-atlantic flight if I could share a bottle or two of a good wine at some sidewalk cafe on a sunny afternoon with you discussing this and other weighty issues of the day. Perhaps Prague beneath the clock. My wife would immediately adopt your childeen (?) and become their American gran, your hubby and I could discuss what fly to catch the monarch of the glen or he could teach me about hurling while our brains flew sparks.

I have not read Wilber, it has been some time since I dealt with these questions academically, but oh the excitement rises still. I live in Arkansas, where my wife recently saw a bumper sticker saying “Eat, Sleep, and Go Fishin”" Thankfully, we have the Internet so that I can get my roof fixed by first-tier thinkers and ignore for the most part the rest. They are good people here, but we do think differently, is it not so? And in the meantime I can find mental stimulation a world away in the land of my fathers and theirs.. My glass is empty, I will go and fill it and remember the pub at the foot of the bridge in Dublin.

I have been reading Greeley’s book “Irish Stew” about the Chicago Haymarket riots, not unlike your own new book on the New York riots??? I’m anxious to hear more…

Steve(Honest Abe)

]]> By: Orna Ross http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-342 Orna Ross Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:51:48 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-342 @Steve: You're absolutely right about the "What level are you?" -- this was intended to be provocative, to get notice and to attract attention to the post. Cowan and Beck use the word "wave" for precisely this reason -- because it is a process, oscillating, ebbing and flowing, rather than a step or stage. Yes, this is a Western conception using the Western tools of scientific inquiry, experimentation and research -- but I think it is closer to Eastern thinking than many other conceptions of development, particularly Buddhism. In fact, whenever I encounter any useful psychological/creative frameworks, I find the Buddhists were there first! I very much agree with what you say: "this must be a dynamic concept so that people can follow the rules of their group, but also maintain independent thought and strive for, and encourage, higher levels in appropriate situations." Each wave goes beyond - or transcends - its predecessor and yet includes it, much as a cell transcends and includes molecules, which transcend and includes atoms. Or - for us writers! - as a sentence transcends and includes words which transcend and include letters. Each wave of existence is a fundamental ingredient of all subsequent waves, and thus each is to be valued (and included). Moreover, each wave can be reactivated as life circumstances warrant. Ken Wilber writes: "In emergency situations, we can activate red power drives; in response to chaos, we might need to activate blue order; in looking for a new job, we might need orange achievement drives; in marriage and with friends, close green bonding. But what none of the first-tier memes can do, on their own, is fully appreciate the existence of the other memes. Each of the first-tier memes thinks that its worldview is the correct or best perspective. It reacts negatively if challenged; it lashes out, using its own tools, whenever it is threatened. Blue order is very uncomfortable with both red impulsiveness and orange individualism. Orange individualism thinks blue order is for suckers and green egalitarianism is weak and woo-woo. Green egalitarianism cannot easily abide excellence and value rankings, big pictures, hierarchies, or anything that appears authoritarian, and thus green reacts strongly to blue, orange, and anything post-green." (Note: Wilber uses the word 'meme' but I prefer 'wave'.) So yes, keep your head out of the clouds when wrestling with the bulls and bears :). Sorry for the inordinately long reply but you're right, fascinating topic (for me, anyway!) & a very useful set of understandings. @Steve: You’re absolutely right about the “What level are you?” — this was intended to be provocative, to get notice and to attract attention to the post. Cowan and Beck use the word “wave” for precisely this reason — because it is a process, oscillating, ebbing and flowing, rather than a step or stage.

Yes, this is a Western conception using the Western tools of scientific inquiry, experimentation and research — but I think it is closer to Eastern thinking than many other conceptions of development, particularly Buddhism. In fact, whenever I encounter any useful psychological/creative frameworks, I find the Buddhists were there first!

I very much agree with what you say: “this must be a dynamic concept so that people can follow the rules of their group, but also maintain independent thought and strive for, and encourage, higher levels in appropriate situations.” Each wave goes beyond – or transcends – its predecessor and yet includes it, much as a cell transcends and includes molecules, which transcend and includes atoms. Or – for us writers! – as a sentence transcends and includes words which transcend and include letters.

Each wave of existence is a fundamental ingredient of all subsequent waves, and thus each is to be valued (and included).

Moreover, each wave can be reactivated as life circumstances warrant. Ken Wilber writes: “In emergency situations, we can activate red power drives; in response to chaos, we might need to activate blue order; in looking for a new job, we might need orange achievement drives; in marriage and with friends, close green bonding.

But what none of the first-tier memes can do, on their own, is fully appreciate the existence of the other memes. Each of the first-tier memes thinks that its worldview is the correct or best perspective. It reacts negatively if challenged; it lashes out, using its own tools, whenever it is threatened. Blue order is very uncomfortable with both red impulsiveness and orange individualism. Orange individualism thinks blue order is for suckers and green egalitarianism is weak and woo-woo. Green egalitarianism cannot easily abide excellence and value rankings, big pictures, hierarchies, or anything that appears authoritarian, and thus green reacts strongly to blue, orange, and anything post-green.”

(Note: Wilber uses the word ‘meme’ but I prefer ‘wave’.)

So yes, keep your head out of the clouds when wrestling with the bulls and bears :) .

Sorry for the inordinately long reply but you’re right, fascinating topic (for me, anyway!) & a very useful set of understandings.

]]> By: Orna Ross http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-341 Orna Ross Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:33:59 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-341 @Very Heaven: thanks for offer of help. I suspect we'll need all the help we can get! let's talk. @Very Heaven: thanks for offer of help. I suspect we’ll need all the help we can get! let’s talk.

]]> By: Steve (Honest Abe) Manning http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-338 Steve (Honest Abe) Manning Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:33:51 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-338 Orna, great topic for thought and discussion amongst creative people, and also the so-called "shakers and movers" Most US teachers are familiar with levels of thinking, probably Europeans as well. Is this a Western concept??? When I studied graduate level international relations, human geography, etc. I was never quite sure the Middle East was playing by the same rules, although somehow we could find areas of agreement and make progress. Many of these concepts at different levels require cooperation and the need to recognize and move across levels. I have difficulty in treating this in a static manner i.e what level are you, what level is a Boy Scout? I believe this must be a dynamic concept so that people can follow the rules of their group, but also maintain independent thought and strive for and encourage higher levels in appropriate situations. I hope I have understood this correctly and am not out of line in suggesting that higher levels may mean recognizing and applying the appropriate level to the given situation. When I'm writing poetry my head is in the clouds; when I'm investing on Wall Street I want my feet firmly on the ground! Help me out? Steve Orna, great topic for thought and discussion amongst creative people, and also the so-called “shakers and movers”
Most US teachers are familiar with levels of thinking, probably Europeans as well. Is this a Western concept??? When I studied graduate level international relations, human geography, etc. I was never quite sure the Middle East was playing by the same rules, although somehow we could find areas of agreement and make progress. Many of these concepts at different levels require cooperation and the need to recognize and move across levels.
I have difficulty in treating this in a static manner i.e what level are you, what level is a Boy Scout?
I believe this must be a dynamic concept so that people can follow the rules of their group, but also maintain independent thought and strive for and encourage higher levels in appropriate situations.
I hope I have understood this correctly and am not out of line in suggesting that higher levels may mean recognizing and applying the appropriate level to the given situation. When I’m writing poetry my head is in the clouds; when I’m investing on Wall Street I want my feet firmly on the ground!
Help me out?
Steve

]]> By: veryheaven http://www.ornaross.com/2009/01/eight-stages-waves-of-human-development-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-336 veryheaven Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:59:39 +0000 http://www.ornaross.com/?p=482#comment-336 your intention to move to higher levels of freethinking is great, absolutely. just re-tweeted your article. would love to assist you in your project. ? your intention to move to higher levels of freethinking is great, absolutely. just re-tweeted your article. would love to assist you in your project. ?

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